27 make people happy. So they come up to you and they really have a different response to you. Because they just… They like you. And also being on TV every single week they feel like they know you. But because of what I did, unless people are just completely narrow-minded and just evil, you know, most people, the reaction that I get, I think that there’s so much respect for what I did. Even if they don’t fully understand it. But they really appreci- ate the fact and understand that I did something that not too many people do. Eric: Did that help sustain you through some of the difficult times that came in the year following? Did that help at all during that following year? Ellen: Yeah. It certainly helped. I mean, if I didn’t have that, I wouldn’t have had, you know… Because it was… Because the press got pretty nasty. The press really turned against me. And really took advantage of, you know, pointing out the ratings. You know, sagging ratings and… It mat- tered to me. Always. It always mattered to me what people thought of me. Even though I’d forgotten that for a while to say,“I’m gay and I’m going to say it and I don’t care what anybody thinks, I don’t care if I lose everything.” Ultimately, when it comes down to it, okay, yes, now I’m gay and I’m free. And then the reality hits like this big wave going,“We hate you. We think you’re… You know… You’re off the air now. We don’t want to watch you. You know… We’re gonna show you.” When you’re that depressed and people are like,“But you don’t know how many people, you know, you’ve changed,” and, you know, it’s like, you know, but, yeah, I’m sad... I’m, you know... Eric: How was it coming back? How different was it coming back to stand- up now, from before? Because now you’re coming there as your whole person as opposed to…? Ellen: Yeah, well, it’s great. But that personal stuff had to come out of me to get that out of the way. Because that’s actually… I keep pointing because there’s a TV there. But it’s more politi- cal and more personal than anything I’ve ever done on stage. And I think I needed to do that. But… So it’s helped me in being, you know, free to say whatever I want on stage. And not worry that something is going to give something away. And,“Oh God, I can’t talk about that because then they’ll know I’m gay.” Or,“I can’t talk about that because that’s going to offend somebody.” Or,“I can’t talk about that because…” It’s like… Now it’s like, you know… I’ll just… I’ll say anything. And to me the only thing that’s impor- tant is honesty. And as long as I’m being honest with my feelings and coming from a good place, and coming from a true place, it’s not gonna… It can’t possibly hurt anybody. Eric: In the short term, Ellen’s honesty did cost her. The media storm that followed her coming out was a Cate- gory 5 and the backlash included hate mail, death threats, and ultimately the cancellation of her show. When I inter- viewed Ellen in 2001, her place in our hearts and minds and on TV was not guaranteed. I don’t think anyone, including Ellen, would have predicted that she’d go on to host one of the most popular, long-running daytime televi- sion shows of all time. And that’s on top of hosting awards shows, doing stand-up, and winning 30 Emmy Awards and more People’s Choice Awards than anyone. Ever. Add to that the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the nation’s highest civilian award, given to her by then President Barack Obama. So long! Until next time! 95 100 105 110 115 120 125 130 135 140 145 150 155 160 165 170 175 180 185