20 regulation.” Well, who the [...] told them not to comply with it to begin with? Eric: So you’re drafted. Perry: I’m drafted, yeah. Eric: And what do you wind up doing in the military then? Perry: I was assigned to personnel, administration, of course, because I knew how to type, I can read and write. I could also speak a little German and a little Spanish. A lot of German and a little Spanish. After that I was assigned to school to be a chaplain’s assistant. I am called into the commandant’s office and I’m told,“You can’t complete this course. No, you can’t stay.”“Why?” “Well, because you’re gay, and I can’t have a chaplain’s assistant who’s gay.” Fine, then put me out of the Army. He refused to put me out. I said,“Wait a minute. If I’m gay enough not to be in this school, I’m gay enough to be out of the military.” I requested discharge three times. Eric: No one would believe you. Perry: No, they wouldn’t! I get to my unit. Basically, everybody in the unit just kind of accepted me. Until one night five guys decided to sexually assault me. Eric: They assaulted you. Perry: Yeah. They tried real hard. They ran me around pretty good. Eric: You must have been scared half to death. Perry: Yeah, more than half. [Laughs.] But, I go in the next morning and I said,“Look, I’m not going to deal with this. No, I want out.” Do you know what the military did? What they inves- tigated was not the assault. Our system of justice, our system, our military sys- tem of justice...“Oh, that’s alright for them to assault you. But we’ve gotta prove is that you’re gay. The crime is not that they assaulted you, the crime is that you are an admitted homosexual.” I am not going to put up with this kind of shit.“I am gay, you people put me in this damn Army, and it’s up to you to see to it that I am protected.” I never had another problem in the remaining 15 years. Eric: So this is all in the first year. Perry: This is within the first six months. So that’s kinda how that relates... Eric: So you spent the next 15 years doing what? Perry: Having a wonderful time. I worked in personnel, I went to college and got a four-year degree. I traveled, I lived in Europe for eight years, I lived in Korea for two. I was not sitting there stagnating and waiting to retire, it wasn’t like I wasn’t being productive, I obviously was. I didn’t get an exem- plary record for nothing. Every unit I went to people looked at me and said, “Oh, you’re gay.” Right, I’m openly gay! They opened my records, and—good grief!—everything they see says,“This man is a homosexual, but he functions in an exemplary manner.” Fine. Every time I was sent to a psychiatrist for an evaluation, they would do the same thing: “Yes, he is homosexual. But no, it is not detrimental to his job perfor- mance.” Exactly what they would write in a record, you know? Eric: What changed? Perry: In 1980, when I came back from Germany to Fort Lewis, Washing- 80 85 90 95 100 105 110 115 120 125 130 135 140 145 150 155 160